## Trying all the alternatives to solve a Sudoku puzzleOther topics in this forumCycles and Twins X-Wing and Swordfish What makes a 'Difficult' puzzle Stripes Word puzzle query Alternate Pairs C Shape Is Sudoku a game of Mathematical symmetry? Is placing the correct candidates part of logic? Two out of three lines Trial and Error - The Labyrinth [Game solving Strategies forum] If all else seems to fail you may need to do a trial and error approach for very tough Sudoku puzzles. There is a full page describing this 'strategy' on the guessing page. Yes, this basically means you have to make a 'guess' of which of equally likely alternatives and see if it leads to a solution. If it turns out to be incorrect you'll need to backtrack - clearing all allocations made using that assumption until reaching a branch point when the choice was made. SudokuDragon makes this very easy actually as you can add a note to the square when you make the 'guess' explaining which branch was taken, you can then use the 'Undo' feature to take you all the way back to the decision point. It's really a strategy of last resort because it takes some time to undo it. Any comments ? Click here to contribute Guessing (re: Trial and Error - The Labyrinth) contributed by Jim SheehanHow about placing a G after a puzzle that requires a guess? Any comments ? Click here to contribute Labyrinth Ban (re: Trial and Error - The Labyrinth) contributed by PrudenceI have heard and read that puzzles that require the use of a trial and error strategy are not considered genuine Sudoku puzzles. Basically if a puzzle cant be solved by logical reasoning it shouldn't count as a Sudoku puzzle. Does SudokuDragon make this distinction I wonder? Any comments ? Click here to contribute Labyrinth Policy (re: Labyrinth Ban) contributed by SudokuDragonIt's a subject we are actively reviewing. With Release 2.7 (14) we have made sure none of our Moderate puzzles can ever require any backtracking. Many of the more difficult puzzles are also solvable using the straightforward Sudoku strategies (only place, forced choice, excluded subgroups and excluded twins). However some truly challenging puzzles although having a single solution may not be solvable using these techniques alone. Let us know what you would like to see. We are thinking of introducing an extra hard level of difficulty rather than banning the backtrack/labyrinth altogether. Any comments ? Click here to contribute Labyrinth banned (re: Labyrinth Policy) contributed by SGI prefer the puzzles to be able to be solved by logic. Using a trial and error method detracts from the game. I also owned a timed version of Sudoku and I spend considerable time on trying to find the logic to rationalize the answer. Having an extra hard category for logical puzzles without a stripe would be nice. Any comments ? Click here to contribute No backtracking (re: Labyrinth banned) contributed by AlexanderYes, I agree it's most frustrating to find out that there was no proper solution after all and have to resort to guessing rather than using pure logic to solve the puzzle. The vast majority of puzzles are now machine generated and perhaps that has something to do with it. Any comments ? Click here to contribute No Trial and Error (re: Labyrinth Policy) contributed by DrueI personally do not want to spend time on puzzles that will require trial and error. Along with many sudoku fans, I don't consider those puzzles to be true sudoku. I have two questions, please: 1. Does Dragon still generate trial-and-error-only puzzles? 2. Are all puzzles generated one solution only? If trial and error is still available, I would like to either see it removed, or isolated in some fashion so that those gamers that are ok with it can work with it. Also, in my view, puzzles should have only one solution. If this is not the case with SD, I vote for unique solutions as a policy. Any answers or comments, please? Thanks, Drue Any comments ? Click here to contribute Current Policy (re: No Trial and Error) contributed by SudokuDragonThis is a tricky issue as there are some very complex solution strategies out there that may make most, even advanced, players reckon that a puzzle in 'unsolvable' without guessing. SudokuDragon does not yet use all the advanced strategies (for example X-Y Wing) so there are puzzles with a unique solution that SudokuDragon needs to guess to be able to solve. Currently (version 4.1) it may generate a 'trial and error' puzzle but at ONLY the topmost difficulty level. There are players who still find our puzzles too easy and like to do some trial and error, so this has been left in for them. If you want to guarantee no trial and error please select a difficulty level other than 'hardest'. The second point is easier to answer, all our puzzles should have only one solution. Some people have been caught out by our 'stripe' if you select the 'stripe' or 'diagonal' generation option there may be other 'solutions' that do not obey the stripe or diagonal rule. If you do find an example of a SudokuDragon puzzle with two (or more) solutions please send it to us. So far no-one has found one. Any comments ? Click here to contribute Labyrinth Tip (re: Trial and Error - The Labyrinth) contributed by AlexanderIf you are solving a puzzle using a bit of trial and error - by following one possibility and seeing if it gives a solution it is quite convenient to use SudokuDragon to mark the point where you made the guess. The easiest way to do this is use is to use CTRL key + number, so just click on the guessed number (say '4' if there is a choice between 4 and 6). If the route does not prove fruitful you can use the Undo feature to take you back to when you allocated the marked square (which conveniently has a 4 in the corner) and then you know to change the '4' into a '6' and try that alternative possibility. Any comments ? Click here to contribute Origins of Labyrinth (re: Labyrinth Tip) contributed by NivlemIt might be worth mentioning the origins of the Labyrinth tip. It takes it's name from the ancient Greek tale of Theseus and the Minotaur. While trying to escape the Minotaur (a monster half bull and half man). Ariadne gave a ball of thread to Theseus to mark his way to the Minotaur through the Labyrinth and then back out again. Most people latch on to the use of the thread to find your way back as you just follow the thread and you can backtrack, however according to the myth the ball of thread helped find the Minotaur as well. Any comments ? Click here to contribute Stuck in a Hard place (re: Trial and Error - The Labyrinth) contributed by LynneHere's an example of a 'hard' puzzle that I can't find a way of solving without using backtracking Click to download this puzzle Any comments ? Click here to contribute Unsolvable sudoku puzzles (re: Trial and Error - The Labyrinth) contributed by Vi LeeAre there any sudoku puzzles that claim to be unsolvable? Do you know which websites post them? Thanks Any comments ? Click here to contribute How unsolvable? (re: Unsolvable sudoku puzzles) contributed by RosinaI am not sure what you mean by 'unsolvable'. Many people consider a puzzle that can not be solved with pure logic as 'unsolvable'. If a puzzle needs 'trial and error' to solve it then it is not really unsovlable. Many of the Challenging class of puzzle on this site are in this class. If you really mean unsolvable then this can be because the puzzle has multiple possible solutions (so it has no unique solution) or it is badly formed and has no solution at all. On the theory page I think there are some examples of the puzzles considered to be the hardest of all. Any comments ? Click here to contribute Copyright © 2005-2014 Sudoku Dragon |